Subject: Systems Language - closed loops

Posted by Niall Palfreyman on 2/5/2010
In Reply To:Systems Language - closed loops Posted by Eric Stiens on 2/4/2010

Message:

Eric Stiens schrieb:
> I guess I'm unclear what the issue here is ...
>
> Bob Gorman wrote:
>
>> But if he beats up Chuck, Chuck while also defeated, deflated and
>> perhaps crying, will go home and tell his father what happened. Then
>> Chuck's father will call Joe's father and Joe will catch Hell. A
>> perfect close loop awareness.
Bob's story seems such a perfect, concrete example of a closed loop that I guess I'm getting less clear what the issue is as well. yet I know I have an issue with my students. In this story Joe influences Chuck, who influences his father, who influences Chuck's father, who influences Chuck. All clear: a closed balancing loop of influences between different agents.

However when I look at exploding rabbit populations in our first approach to exponential growth, I want the students to come to grips with a rather more abstract situation: births influences the rabbit population, which dictates the birth rate. Here it is no longer a question of two separate agents influencing each other, but rather a process influences a stock, which in return dictates (not influences) the process. There is something about this SD way of viewing the loop which my students find difficult to absorb, and it seems to them a needless abstraction.

This is the situation I'd like to find new vocabulary for.

Best wishes,
Niall.

Follow Ups:

Systems Language - closed loops - Tim Joy 2/6/2010 
Systems Language - closed loops - Niall Palfreyman 2/7/2010
Systems Language - closed loops - Warren Farr 2/7/2010
Systems Language - closed loops - Richard Turnock 2/7/2010
Systems Language - closed loops - Kathy Arizmendi 2/6/2010
Systems Language - closed loops - Bob Gorman 2/5/2010 
Systems Language - closed loops - Warren Farr 2/5/2010
Systems Language - closed loops - Michael Round 2/5/2010
Systems Language - closed loops - Tim Joy 2/6/2010
Systems Language - closed loops - Eric Stiens 2/5/2010 
Systems Language - closed loops - Warren Farr 2/5/2010 
Systems Language - closed loops - Kathy Arizmendi 2/5/2010 
Systems Language - closed loops - Bob Gorman 2/5/2010
Systems Language - closed loops - Kathy Arizmendi 2/5/2010
Systems Language - closed loops - Lees N. Stuntz 2/6/2010